Adrian
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Posts: 209
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Post by Adrian on Aug 15, 2022 16:52:42 GMT
In order to help ride leaders in the planning of Wednesday rides, it has more than once been suggested that a library of established routes would be useful. To this end, I have created a prototype library using the route-planning and route-sharing website Plotaroute. Plotaroute is by no means the only such web site, but I think it offers the best range of functions for the minimum fuss. Plotaroute allows you to browse and download routes for free - and without even having to register - plus to sort and filter routes by distance, ascent and name. It also seems to be the site that is most popular among those ride leaders who are already posting their routes online. So far I have only gone to the effort of uploading a few example routes. Please have a look and post here for discussion what you think. If you were leading rides, would you find a library of a few dozen - or a couple of hundred - routes useful? (Note: the existence of a route in the library definitely wouldn't mean that it is the only route a leader can take a ride on. He or she could follow one of the routes exactly if they want, use it as a basis for a customised route, or create an entirely new one.) You can get the best idea of sorting and filtering from the full (but still quite short) list of uploaded rides. Alternative views allow you to see just rides whose general direction is north, northeast, east, southeast, south, southwest, west and northwest
By default, Plotaroute uses metric units for distance and ascent. If you prefer miles and feet to kilometres and metres, you can register and set your preferences in your user profile. |
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Post by Andrew R on Aug 15, 2022 21:04:28 GMT
I think that it is useful to have, although I’m not sure that I would necessarily use it, as I like to plan my own routes. However, if I somehow got to lead a ride in an area that I’m not too familiar with it might be a useful starting point. Being a bit of a dinosaur who doesn’t use a garmin or other navigation device, I only tend to use these things for other peoples benefit. You can’t beat a good old OS map! Having said that there are several leaders who would maybe lead rides if they were provided with a route. I can’t see how to move from the full list to the various directional filters, but I, sure that will become clearer with use.
Personally I prefer RidewithGPS to Plotaroute, but I haven’t really tried plotting a route on Plotaroute. I will try to use it sometime to see how it works. I think most other groups that I’m familiar with including Audax UK seem to mainly use RidewithGPS.
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Post by Andrew R on Aug 15, 2022 21:11:32 GMT
Are we able to add rides to the library? Alternatively will you be picking them up from published rides on this forum? Incidentally, I wish people would post them as Plotaroute (or other similar) links as many of us can’t easily open GPX files.
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Adrian
Administrator
Posts: 209
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Post by Adrian on Aug 16, 2022 10:59:41 GMT
Are we able to add rides to the library? Alternatively will you be picking them up from published rides on this forum? Only the holder of that Plotaroute account (i.e. the web team) will be able to add routes. If feedback suggests that building up the library is a worthwhile exercise I intend both to ask leaders to submit routes they would like to be included and to harvest routes published here. Incidentally, I wish people would post them as Plotaroute (or other similar) links as many of us can’t easily open GPX files. I agree completely and I made just this request at the last AGM. On occasion, when a route has been posted as an attached file, I have (and so has Eamon) re-posted it as a link to such as Plotaroute. That way, everyone can see a map, distance, climbing, etc. with nothing more than a browser, and those with GPS sets can download the file in whichever of multiple formats best suits their device. |
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Adrian
Administrator
Posts: 209
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Post by Adrian on Aug 16, 2022 12:03:44 GMT
I can’t see how to move from the full list to the various directional filters That is, I'm afraid, because you can't. Those directional filters are implemented with user-defined tags, which only the account holder gets to filter by. That filtered view can then be shared with other users, which is how I created the north, south, etc. links. I went to the trouble of setting that up because identifying rides by general direction was something that earlier discussions among the committee highlighted as desirable. If those kinds of views are indeed thought useful, I was envisaging creating a page on the main website with all the links as per my original post, i.e. one for all routes, one for those to the north, one for the south, etc. It's worth noting that we could have views showing rides tagged in any way we want, for example "no-offroad" Personally I prefer RidewithGPS to Plotaroute, but I haven’t really tried plotting a route on Plotaroute. I will try to use it sometime to see how it works. I think most other groups that I’m familiar with including Audax UK seem to mainly use RidewithGPS. I've never got to grips with either Plotaroute or RidewithGPS as a route-planning tool myself, so I can't comment other than to note that Plotaroute appears to have a propensity to take you on unexpected excursions off-road. All the routes I have on my Plotaroute account (and the ones on the York Wednesday Wheelers account) have been uploaded having been plotted elsewhere. I evaluated a range of sites, specifically looking at how well they would work for sharing a library of Wheelers rides. For that purpose Plotaroute beat RidewithGPS because you can share a sortable, filterable list of rides (if RidewithGPS has a way of doing this, I couldn't find it), and you can download routes from Plotaroute without having to sign-up to the site. |
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Adrian
Administrator
Posts: 209
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Post by Adrian on Aug 16, 2022 13:34:31 GMT
My thanks to Paul Scott, who let me have some comments by phone. One idea arising from that conversation was that an appropriate naming convention was needed to help find rides by either elevenses stop, lunch stop or both.
I've updated the rides so far uploaded so that they're all named according to the scheme: <elevenses>-<lunch>
Please keep the comments coming.
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Post by richardofyork on Aug 16, 2022 14:26:43 GMT
I think this is a very useful start. I'm sure some folks will find it useful. I'm something of a luddite and don't use GPS devices preferring good old OS maps. I do plot routes I'm leading in Plotaroute for others to download. I do find Plotaroute easy to use, the edit tools work well. It's useful for gauging ride length and feet to be climbed. Since Dec 2021 all 1a rides are in Plotaroute format and available. Tools like Plotaroute do need a health warning with them, it can plot route sections on unrideable lanes, bridleways or similar. 1a leaders quite often ask a friend to sanity check a route particularly if it's unfamiliar ground.
Personally, I think there is no substitute for a leader recceing a route or at least a tricky section. But having a route library is a helpful starting point or prompt.
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Post by Andrew R on Aug 16, 2022 15:09:10 GMT
I have just plotted my ride for next week on Plotaroute, having done it a couple of days ago on Ridewithgps. I do think that it was harder to use on Plotaroute, having to ‘undo’ several times because it tried to take me on paths that I didn’t want to go on. However, if that is to be the club’s preferred system, then I will use it.
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Adrian
Administrator
Posts: 209
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Post by Adrian on Aug 16, 2022 16:46:18 GMT
I have just plotted my ride for next week on Plotaroute, having done it a couple of days ago on Ridewithgps. I do think that it was harder to use on Plotaroute, having to ‘undo’ several times because it tried to take me on paths that I didn’t want to go on. However, if that is to be the club’s preferred system, then I will use it. Just to be clear, if we were to choose Plotaroute to hold a library of routes, that doesn't mean anyone has to stop using their favourite tools for planning routes. If you have a route in any of the major GPS formats (GPX, TCX, FIT or KML), regardless of which tools you used to produce it (it could even be the log of an actual ride) then you would be able to send it to the web team and we would be able to upload it to the library. A download of a route from RidewithGPS would be absolutely fine! |
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Post by ginnyw on Aug 16, 2022 18:19:01 GMT
I too think this is a great start. I am one of those who requested such a database to help with the planning of Wednesday rides - either to follow the established route or use as a basis.
"If you were leading rides, would you find a library of a few dozen - or a couple of hundred - routes useful?
Personally I would find useful a database of a couple of hundred Wednesday Wheeler routes so that when i was allocated a ride I could look for an established route to work from or even just as a reference.
I have only just started using Plotaroute and whilst I need to become more familiar with it, it seems ok so far. I agree routes should be posted in Plotaroute on the website so everyone can see the details of the route beforehand.
I also agree with an appropriate naming convention to help find rides especially if more than 1 ride is having a stop in the same town.
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Post by jan on Aug 19, 2022 19:02:10 GMT
If anyone is interested Wheeleasy of Harrogate have a route list of about 250 routes. I found it very useful when visiting the area last week. Jan.
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Post by johnw on Aug 20, 2022 17:24:41 GMT
Great idea that I would definitely use - the more the merrier!! I find it easier to start from a core route and modify it. I use plotaroute but haven't been making them public and so have not been embedding them in my route posts - a bit more practice required.
Adrian - please keep going!! and thanks - John
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Post by Andrew R on Aug 20, 2022 17:40:31 GMT
John, please do post your plotaroute links, because many of us can't easily view gpx files
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Post by andyc on Aug 22, 2022 17:37:18 GMT
I just tried the "North" link. It works fine. One warning maybe: the most obvious link on the page, which is in bright green and says "Continue" is for a download for a browser. The single route currently listed is below this and not so obvious. I expect when there are more routes, then it will become clearer. Overall I think this is a good idea. What could also be useful is for ready access to rides that have taken place in recent weeks.
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Adrian
Administrator
Posts: 209
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Post by Adrian on Aug 23, 2022 9:28:13 GMT
I just tried the "North" link. It works fine. One warning maybe: the most obvious link on the page, which is in bright green and says "Continue" is for a download for a browser. The single route currently listed is below this and not so obvious. I expect when there are more routes, then it will become clearer. Overall I think this is a good idea. What could also be useful is for ready access to rides that have taken place in recent weeks. Yes, the site does carry ads, and that rather prominent one for a browser is one of them. I use an ad blocker, to which Plotaroute doesn't object, and I don't get the ads. I think you're right, though: as the list of rides gets longer it will gain greater prominence among the ads if you are getting them. |
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